Sound is everywhere, yet most of the time we barely notice it. Forget your headphones on the way to work and suddenly the conversations on the train, the doors closing, footsteps and traffic return to the foreground, a reminder of how much sound shapes the way we experience a place, a moment, even our everyday lives.
Few artists understood that as deeply as Ryuichi Sakamoto. Across a career spanning more than four decades, the Japanese composer and artist pushed sound far beyond music, bringing it into conversation with film, performance, technology, nature and physical space. This September, that side of his practice takes centre stage at Hamburger Bahnhof with Ryuichi Sakamoto | seeing sound, hearing time, the first major retrospective of his work in Europe and part of the museum’s programme celebrating its 30th anniversary.
Across approximately 1,500 square metres of the museum’s Rieckhallen, seven works unfold through five large-scale installations. Among them is IS YOUR TIME (2017), in which a piano damaged by the 2011 tsunami is connected to live seismological data from earthquakes around the world, alongside installations developed from Sakamoto’s 2017 album async. Together, the works show what happens when sound is no longer something we simply listen to, but something spatial, physical and inseparable from its surroundings.
It was through this part of his practice that Sakamoto also developed one of his longest artistic relationships. Shiro Takatani, artist and member of the Kyoto-based collective Dumb Type, first worked with him on LIFE in 1999. Over the next two decades, they continued to create installations and performances together, including async and the theatre piece TIME. In 2022, Sakamoto joined Dumb Type for the collective’s presentation at the Venice Biennale. Their shared work remains very much present today: async – immersion, first shown at AMBIENT KYOTO in 2023, is currently being presented again at Azabudai Hills Gallery in Tokyo.
For Sakamoto’s retrospective in Berlin, Takatani is now returning to works they once developed together without his collaborator beside him. We spoke with him about more than twenty years of working with Sakamoto, their shared understanding of sound and time, the role of technology in his work and what it means to preserve a collaboration after one person is gone.
AMELIE BACHERT What’s the last thing you saw or heard that genuinely surprised you?
SHIRO TAKATANI An event that genuinely surprised me recently was the collapse of a glacier in Nepal. It deepened my sense of awe toward nature. We humans are truly tiny beings; realizing this compels us to seriously consider the concept of “coexistence” here on Earth.
AB Your work often deals with things that are difficult to grasp: light, time, atmosphere, the invisible. What is something you notice in a room that you think most people don’t?
ST I believe that what catches my eye also catches yours. Lately, “shadows” have been on my mind. In particular, the movement of the “shadows” created by the sun allows us to perceive the shape and motion of the Earth we inhabit.
AB Dumb Type was founded in 1984, at a moment when technology was becoming increasingly embedded in everyday life. Back then, your work often approached that development with a certain darkness or scepticism. Forty years later, did your concerns turn out to be justified?
ST Technology appears to enrich our lives, but that is only one aspect within the short timeframe of our lives. Not exactly as the price paid for that newfound prosperity, but… we are burdening the future with the problems such as carbon dioxide, waste—including plastics—and nuclear waste. I am interested in using technology. This is because it allows for the discovery of “new cross-sections”—such as the structure of a new society based on “human relationships” that is not created by human emotions.
AB Your work often makes technology almost disappear, even though it is technically very complex. Is the best technology sometimes the technology we stop noticing?
ST I think so. My aim is not simply to showcase the technology itself, but rather to capture its characteristics and achieve a harmonious fusion with the concept of the work.
AB You first worked with Ryuichi Sakamoto on LIFE in 1999. Do you remember your first real artistic disagreement?
ST I never had any disagreement whatsoever. I hope Ryuichi felt the same way… I was happy to spend such a fun and precious time with Ryuichi.
AB You worked together for more than two decades. What could you communicate to each other towards the end that you couldn’t have communicated in 1999?
ST From the very beginning, I was able to speak frankly with Ryuichi about anything. Of course, I’ve been a fan of Ryuichi since I was 16, so I was nervous to talk to him at first, but, I believe it was because Ryuichi had an interest in Dumb Type and Kyoto where I live, so, he treated me in such an open, unpretentious manner that we soon developed a relationship where we could discuss anything.
Exhibition 'Ryuichi Sakamoto + Shiro Takatani | LIFE - fluid, invisible, inaudible...' at Yamaguchi Center for Arts and Media (2007), Photography by Ryuichi Maruo, Courtesy of The Estate of Ryuichi Sakamoto, KAB Inc.
AB You spent more than twenty years influencing each other artistically. What part of your work today would be different if you had never met Sakamoto, and what part of his work do you think would be different if he had never met you?
ST I was truly influenced by him in so many ways… It is particularly regarding the approach to “sound” and “time,” as well as how the concept of the work is constructed. It feels insufficient to simply call it an “influence”—or rather, I am not even sure if I would have become an artist at all had I not encountered him. I hope I had a positive influence on him… but that is something I cannot answer.
AB This is Sakamoto’s first major retrospective in Europe. What can an exhibition reveal about him that simply listening to his music cannot?
ST It seems to me that whenever he was talking with me, he was always thinking about sound installations—viewing them as devices for creating music and having others listen to it. I believe that is the concept of “installation music.” “Sound” consists of physical vibrations that strike and reflect off walls, ceilings, floors, and the listener, creating a complex sonic space. In a fleeting moment, tune your ears to the resonance of the sound—audible only in that specific space—and let your entire body be immersed in the information he conveys.
AB Retrospectives inevitably create a narrative around an artist. Is there anything about Sakamoto that you hope this exhibition does not simplify?
ST I cannot accept the kind of simplification such as “He was a famous musician, so the people around him did everything for him.” Ryuichi devised a truly wide variety of concepts and ideas himself. For example, IS YOUR TIME features a piano that was damaged by the tsunami from the Great East Japan Earthquake. The project came to fruition after Ryuichi —who encountered the instrument in a school gymnasium in Miyagi Prefecture— conceived the idea of playing it using earthquake data from around the world. Upon hearing this concept, I collaborated with him to help bring it realized.
AB You are now installing and presenting works you once made together, this time without Sakamoto. At what point does preserving a collaboration become a new act of authorship?
ST Regarding the installation of the artworks, I shared a relationship of trust with Ryuichi; while he often entrusted the task to me during his lifetime, I also made sure to provide detailed reports and have him review the work. So now, there is a judge within me—one stricter than I am—who scrutinizes everything rigorously. For my own work, I might be able to compromise at times, but there are things I simply cannot accept when Ryuichi’s name is attached to it. I think this is also important when installing my own work.
AB Sakamoto spent much of his career thinking about time, disappearance, nature and mortality. Has this exhibition made you notice something in his work that you couldn’t see while he was alive?
ST That’s right. I make various discoveries every time I carry out installation work. That experience is likely quite similar to making a surprising discovery when rewatching a movie you saw long ago. Both we and society are constantly changing, and I believe that, amidst those changes, the points of resonance between us and the works shift as well.
Ryuichi Sakamoto | seeing sound, hearing time is on view at Hamburger Bahnhof – Nationalgalerie der Gegenwart, Berlin, from September 11, 2026, until June 20, 2027.