{"id":6076,"date":"2012-10-02T15:50:29","date_gmt":"2012-10-02T13:50:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/?p=6076"},"modified":"2012-10-02T15:50:29","modified_gmt":"2012-10-02T13:50:29","slug":"the-mistress-of-metaphysics","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/the-mistress-of-metaphysics\/","title":{"rendered":"An Interview with Marina Abramovic, the Mistress of Metaphysics"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\" Marina Abramovic performing “The Artist is Present”, MoMA, New York 2010. Photo \u00a9 Marco Anelli\u00a0<\/p>\n

The history of art is a silent and stuffy affair filled with paintings, drawings, sculpture and the occasional stitch of facts handed down in documents. Lost to us are the emotions, the fleeting instances of psychic power that willed artworks into being. Marina Abramovic takes inspiration from precisely that insensate means, the energy of the mind and its power to communicate. She invests less in material and more in the immaterial, creating a body of performance art that over the past five decades continues to test the limits of humanness. She has made a career of turning insecurity into feats of intensity, transforming private thoughts into public meditations. Her latest work The Artist is Present, <\/em>presented at MoMA last year, was a tour de force<\/em> of measured endurance. This summer she turns to her latest collaborative project, a performance with Robert Wilson, who has created a rendition of her life story for the Manchester Festival. At her Soho loft, she talked with us about the power of meditation, the problem of excess bad art, and her childhood obsession with Bridgette Bardot\u2019s nose.<\/p>\n

Interview by Steve Pulimood<\/em><\/p>\n

Sleek: Is silence important to you?
<\/strong>Marina Abramovic: When you verbalize things and talk, you expend an enormous amount of energy. But if you don\u2019t speak, the body generates a different kind of energy that you can radiate to the audience. For me, the highest form of immaterial art is music. In music there is no object between you and the public. The second on that hierarchy is performance, because performance is a kind of energy dialogue. When you don\u2019t talk and there is no sound except for pure presence, then you can generate a kind of energy that the public can really feel. I\u2019ve been thinking that if there is no time in life, we should have more time in art. If life gets shorter, then art gets longer. That\u2019s why I\u2019ve developed these very long performances, lasting ten days, fifteen days, and now the longest one of three months, in which I completely devote myself to that state of total silence, with no communication with the outside world. The entire new work is to create a silent state of mind, to be entirely in the present.<\/p>\n

Sleek: One thing that is very interesting, which you just referred to is the ancient concept \u201cvita brevis, ars longa\u201d, the idea that life is short and art is long. Even before the invention of the computer, attention deficits were a problem…
<\/strong>MA: I remember growing up in the former Yugoslavia where I could actually take a book by Dostoyevsky and read it from the beginning to the end. It would take me five days and I would never leave the house. The reality of the book would become more real than the life around me. I never have that kind of time anymore.<\/p>\n

Sleek: But you meditate?
<\/strong>MA: I do. I have a living altar\u2026 I am very interested in Tibetan Buddhism. Everything on this altar means something to me. For example, this is an image of my grandfather who was a saint.<\/p>\n

Sleek: You said that part of the reason you are interested in performance is to engage the public, to have them be in the present. It is one thing for an artist to make us aware of the present, but there\u2019s also the question of the power of the mind to focus on certain things. Are you interested in the benefits of this, or is your purpose to raise awareness of our collective attention deficit?
<\/strong>MA: I\u2019m interested in the benefits. I believe in a universal knowledge that we can tap into, knowledge that is already available to us. I lived with Aborigines in the central Australian desert for one year, with no money, absolutely in nature. I learned some of their language, but basically they communicate telepathically. They have an excellent sense of perception and have instincts that our rational brain can\u2019t explain. Tibetan Buddhism uses meditation to figure out how to actually reach this point. Aborigine mythology is always set in the present. They never say, \u2018it has happened\u2019 or, \u2018it is going to happen.\u2019 They will say, \u2018the snake woman is fighting with the man.\u2019 There\u2019s a thirty-thousand-year-old history that exists as an oral tradition and it has survived everything. It is a kind of immaterial form of art, which is stronger then any object. It\u2019s pure energy.<\/p>\n

Sleek: How does this relate to your creative process? You showed me your altar. Is creating work and thinking of ideas born from those moments? Or, do you have a traditional studio practice?
<\/strong>MA: I hate studios. An idea can come from anywhere: on the way to the metro station, or in the bathtub, or while chopping garlic. When an idea comes you have to recognize whether it is a potentially important idea, or just a nice idea. If it is an idea that makes you tremble, something that obsesses you that you can\u2019t forget for days and days then it is an idea to consider. All the rest you need to edit out. I really believe that we have to stop art pollution.<\/p>\n

Sleek: Art pollution?
<\/strong>MA: As we speak, 375,000 artists live in this city. I mean, how many good works can we make?<\/p>\n

Sleek: Do you find yourself writing things down?
<\/strong>MA: First comes the idea. Then I will write or make a drawing, and think about how I can realize it. I wanted to do a work for the MoMA retrospective where I was present seven motionless hours every day. Ten hours on Fridays. I was thinking, how I am going to do this? I had never done anything like this, and I prepared my body and mind as if I were traveling to outer space. Everyone was completely shocked. They underestimated the power of pure immaterial energy. We had a record number of visitors, close to one million. There were people waiting overnight just to sit there. At the end I removed the table so that it was just two chairs. The simplicity of things is so important. When you are a younger artist you need props, you need things to hide your insecurity. But actually, the mind is the most powerful tool. I could never have done this before. I needed to work for forty years to get this point.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\"\" Marina Abramovic, installation view “The Artist is Present”, MoMA, New York 2010. Photo \u00a9 Marco Anelli<\/p>\n

Sleek: What about the challenge of the discomfort and pain?
<\/strong>MA: There were moments when I could not even lift my hand to take my dress off. In the last months I could not even be touched because literally every molecule in my body was in pain. The body is not used to being static so it was rebelling.<\/p>\n

Sleek: Did time disappear?
<\/strong>MA: Totally. In the beginning a guard asked, \u2018Do you want us to give you some kind of sign about the time?\u2019 I was sitting there to forget about time.<\/p>\n

Sleek: Is it the work that you are most proud of?
<\/strong>MA: I try to challenge myself. The work before was Seven Easy Pieces<\/em> at the Guggenheim, which was a very difficult piece. I\u2019ve been in this country for ten years and I\u2019ve only made three pieces. Each piece was harder than the one before it. Now I am doing my funeral.<\/p>\n

Sleek: How did that come about?
<\/strong>MA: After I walked the Great Wall of China, and I split with my partner of twelve years, in 1988. I was forty years old at that time. I wrote this sentence, \u2018I feel fat, ugly and unwanted.\u2019 At that time I hated theatre. But I thought that the key to all the pain in my life is my work, and the way to translate that pain into something else is to stage your own life in the context of theatre. To play out your life in front of you somehow liberates you from it. Charles Atlas was the first one to actually stage it in Madrid, in 1989.<\/p>\n

Sleek: He staged what exactly?
<\/strong>MA: The Marina Abramovic biography. My life as theatre. There is one scene where I am saying goodbye to Ulay, and the real Ulay was in the theatre with his pregnant Chinese wife. It was a situation in which reality and theatre became one. It created such an incredibly liberating feeling that I decided the only theatre I am ever going to engage with is the theatre of my life. So every five or six years I will ask a different director to re-edit my life. Last time it was Michael Laub, a Belgian theater director, who made Biography Remix.<\/em><\/p>\n

Sleek: I nominate David Lynch for the next interpretation.
<\/strong>MA: I love David Lynch. He has invented a new language of cinema. Plus, he\u2019s very interested in transcendental meditation. I would love to meet him and do something with him. But, our paths haven\u2019t crossed. One day\u2026 I am now sixty-five. A few years ago I approached Bob Wilson. In my performances I am in complete control. In the theatre, I give all my control away. I give my diaries, intimate letters, and photographs to the director. He has total freedom. Bob looked at me and looked at my life and said, \u2018Okay, you are going to play your mother\u2019 \u2013 I always fought with my mother.<\/p>\n

Sleek: She\u2019s no longer alive?
<\/strong>MA: No. She died three years ago. Last September I was rehearsing the role in Madrid with Bob, and my brother came from Belgrade to see us. He looked at me and said, \u2018You are exactly like her.\u2019 This is my biggest fear! It was a horrible compliment. Anthony, of Anthony and the Johnsons, <\/a>is a great writer and musician and he is creating nine songs. He is singing three of them on the stage and I have to sing one. And William Dafoe plays the narrator and my father. He has many different roles. It starts with the funeral then goes into the childhood, and finishes with the raising of the soul and another funeral. Other directors have put a lot of my work into the stories, but Bob is taking my work out and is putting my life stories in, crazy stories like the one about when I was twelve years old and I felt terribly ugly. I had orthopedic shoes. I had a big nose, which I hated. I was obsessed with Bridget Bardot\u2019s nose…<\/p>\n

Sleek: Because Bardot had a small nose?
<\/strong>MA: Right. Small and kind of upturned. Each time I asked my mother for a Bridget Bardot nose she would just slap my face and that would be it. So I created this perfect plan, at the age of twelve, that one Sunday morning when nobody was at home I would go to my parents\u2019 bedroom. They had a big matrimonial bed with sharp edges. I was going to spin around as fast as I could and fall on the edge of the bed to break my nose. And then, we would go to the hospital with the Bardot photographs in my pocket. So I go to the room, I spin around and miss the corner. I cut myself in the wrong place, there\u2019s blood everywhere and the photographs fall to the floor. My mother comes into the room and slaps my face. End of story. Bob has staged this episode, with a young girl playing me and I play my mother in this scene, in front of a huge Bridget Bardot projection. Looking back I\u2019m lucky that it didn\u2019t happen. It is very scary to have a big nose on a childish face, but when you grow up your features all really fit with one another. I would look horrible with a Bardot nose.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\"\" From left: Willem Dafoe, Marina Abramovic, Antony, Robert Wilson, photographed during rehearsals for “The Life and Death of Marina Abramovic” at Teatro Real, Madrid in 2010. Photo \u00a9 Antony Crook<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Sleek: I love stories of artists when they were young, trying to fashion their image\u2026 though I don\u2019t know whether you thought of yourself as an artist when you were twelve years old.
<\/strong>MA: I had my first show.<\/p>\n

Sleek: You had your first show when you were twelve?
<\/strong>MA: I was always incredibly jealous of Mozart, because Mozart\u2019s first concert was at seven. I was too late.<\/p>\n

Sleek: Explain why you hated theatre so much.
<\/strong>MA: Because theatre is a black box where people rehearse, where you have to pretend to be somebody else, where you have to play emotions\u2026 Performance was always about the real in real space and real time. I always use the example, the knife is the knife and the blood is the blood. It\u2019s simple. In theatre, the knife is not the knife and the blood is not the blood. That\u2019s the difference. Then the theatre became different because it started taking from performance. I was studying Pina Bausch and Jan Fabre. Fabre has actually been influenced by my work a lot, we\u2019ve collaborated, and Pina Bausch was one of my favorite choreographers.<\/p>\n

Sleek: How would you describe Bob Wilson\u2019s style?
<\/strong>MA: Working with Bob Wilson is wonderful. He invented a new language for theatre. What is really incredible is Bob\u2019s attention to time and light. He literally paints with light. When we first arrived in the theatre he spent hours asking light technicians to adjust various pieces of equipment to precise levels.<\/p>\n

Sleek: When did you meet Bob Wilson for the first time?
<\/strong>MA: I met him in Belgrade in 1971. He was doing monologues at a theatre festival. It was wonderful. He was totally himself on stage. I remember the Slavic press said that \u2018a genius from Iowa is in our town.\u2019 Bob later told me that he had never even been to Iowa. The show was supposed to finish at eleven o\u2019clock, but he went on and on. It was midnight and the night porter wanted to close the space. Nobody was leaving because we were all mesmerized. So the night porter finally came and shot off his gun, yelling \u2018everyone out.\u2019 So we all ran out and that was the end.\u00a0<\/p>\n

\"\" Marina Abramovic performing “The Artist is Present”, MoMA, New York 2010. Photo \u00a9 Marco Anelli<\/p>\n

From Sleek 30 “Sound\/Silence”\u00a0<\/a><\/strong><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Marina Abramovic performing “The Artist is Present”, MoMA, New York 2010. Photo \u00a9 Marco Anelli\u00a0 The history of art is a silent and stuffy affair filled with paintings, drawings, sculpture and the occasional stitch of facts handed down in documents. Lost to us are the emotions, the fleeting instances of psychic power that willed artworks…<\/p>","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":6079,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_kad_post_transparent":"","_kad_post_title":"","_kad_post_layout":"","_kad_post_sidebar_id":"","_kad_post_content_style":"","_kad_post_vertical_padding":"","_kad_post_feature":"","_kad_post_feature_position":"","_kad_post_header":false,"_kad_post_footer":false,"_kad_post_classname":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[471,472,473,474],"class_list":["post-6076","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-marina-abramovic","tag-moma","tag-steve-pulimood","tag-the-artist-is-present"],"acf":{"main_category":null,"legacy":"1","exclude_from_ads":null,"hero_title":null,"subtitle":null,"hero":null,"teasers":null,"facebook_image":null,"related_articles":null,"next_article":null,"sleek_card_focus":null,"content":null},"yoast_head":"\nAn Interview with Marina Abramovic, the Mistress of Metaphysics An Interview with Marina Abramovic, the Mistress of Metaphysics<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/the-mistress-of-metaphysics\/\" \/>\n<link rel=\"next\" href=\"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/article\/the-mistress-of-metaphysics\/2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"de_DE\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"An Interview with Marina Abramovic, the Mistress of Metaphysics An Interview with Marina Abramovic, the Mistress of Metaphysics\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Marina Abramovic performing “The Artist is Present”, MoMA, New York 2010. 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