{"id":81983,"date":"2019-12-09T11:02:15","date_gmt":"2019-12-09T11:02:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/?p=81983"},"modified":"2019-12-09T16:20:12","modified_gmt":"2019-12-09T16:20:12","slug":"kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/","title":{"rendered":"“To qualify as an artist, you have to be practically willing to die”\u2014Kembra Pfahler in conversation with 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In 1992, she had her vulva sewn shut in Richard Kern\u2019s Sewing Circle, a feat she performed again, twice, most recently for Penthouse<\/em> in 1998. Elsewhere, Kembra Pfahler<\/a> has exhibited paintings, portraits and curated exhibitions under her concept of \u2018availabilism\u2019, the practice of making art with whatever is close to hand. In 2014, she also co- organised Future Feminism<\/em> in New York alongside singer Anohni, musicians Sierra and Bianca Casady from CocoRosie, and performer Johanna Constantine, an art, music and performance event that later toured Europe. Here, actor, model and writer Stoya<\/a> recounts her conversation with the artist at Pfahler\u2019s New York home, including discussions on the relationship between art and dissent, artistic personas and the exact way she feels about gender equality.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"images","gallery":[{"ID":81989,"id":81989,"title":"49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007","filename":"49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","filesize":2071978,"url":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/49567e4-r01-49567f2-r01-007\/","alt":"","author":"1","description":"","caption":"","name":"49567e4-r01-49567f2-r01-007","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":81983,"date":"2019-12-09 10:10:48","modified":"2019-12-09 10:10:48","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-includes\/images\/media\/default.png","width":1347,"height":1778,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","thumbnail-width":73,"thumbnail-height":96,"medium":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","medium-width":1347,"medium-height":1778,"medium_large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","medium_large-width":1347,"medium_large-height":1778,"large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","large-width":1347,"large-height":1778,"1536x1536":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","1536x1536-width":1164,"1536x1536-height":1536,"2048x2048":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","2048x2048-width":1347,"2048x2048-height":1778,"trp-custom-language-flag":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","trp-custom-language-flag-width":9,"trp-custom-language-flag-height":12,"wpvr_mobile":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E4-R01-49567F2-R01-007.jpg","wpvr_mobile-width":1347,"wpvr_mobile-height":1778}}],"settings":{"fit_width":"6","caption":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

The Manhattan air is cool. The apartment walls are a warm red. Three black cats of varying builds splay and frolic. Nina, the smallest, hops onto my lap and digs her claws into my jeans for grip. I\u2019m in the presence of Kembra Pfahler, in the space she has lived in and worked from for decades. She\u2019s an artist\u2014largely known for her band The Voluptuous Horror of Karen Black\u2014who transcends genre and medium. She\u2019s also the originator of availabilism and a teacher, currently at Columbia. She\u2019s jet-lagged from bouncing between art gigs in Europe and her class in NYC, and warms up to my questions quickly.<\/em><\/p>\n

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Stoya: Do you think rebellion is important for art?<\/p>\n

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Kembra: Yes, I do, but I don\u2019t think it needs to be necessarily destructive rebellion. It could be like spiritual rebellion where you\u2019re just pushing yourself towards the unknown. You know, and maybe that would be, in some cases, towards what\u2019s transgressive or not acceptable to mainstream identities or mainstream acceptance. It\u2019s exhilarating, to use your vernacular. I do think rebellion is necessary. But again, a sort of tempered rebellion that doesn\u2019t kill you. I never really believed in an art practice that was romantic, that would cause harm because I saw so much harm done to artists growing up in the Lower East Side as a teenager there, and surviving the \u2018AIDS Apocalypse\u2019, and seeing so many great people having to die. You know, the culture was genocidal pretty much because such a large percentage of our artists were \u2018taken away\u2019 because of AIDS. So I think because I saw so much death in my early-20s and my teens, it felt like such a privilege to still get to produce and still get to be here after we lost everyone in the late Eighties … I never really wanted Romanticism to be part of my practice the way Mary Shelley and Blake and all of those Romantic poets used to.<\/p>\n

To have to qualify as if you\u2019re an artist, you have to be practically willing to die. And so that really changed me a lot in the Eighties, getting to experience that. And that gave me an appreciation to still be here and to honour all of my friends who died, like my best friend, Gordon Kurtti. They died, and we did an art show for him 26 years after his death at [New York\u2019s] Participant Inc gallery, where we showed all of his work and I was able to finally honour him. But I remember in the late-Eighties when Gordon died, he was someone who really was my first best friend. As an artist, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve had that person in your life, but they\u2019re usually very \u2018catalystic’.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"images","gallery":[{"ID":81988,"id":81988,"title":"49567E2-R01-010","filename":"49567E2-R01-010.jpg","filesize":2357261,"url":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/49567e2-r01-010\/","alt":"","author":"1","description":"","caption":"","name":"49567e2-r01-010","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":81983,"date":"2019-12-09 10:10:41","modified":"2019-12-09 10:10:41","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-includes\/images\/media\/default.png","width":1347,"height":1778,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","thumbnail-width":73,"thumbnail-height":96,"medium":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","medium-width":1347,"medium-height":1778,"medium_large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","medium_large-width":1347,"medium_large-height":1778,"large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","large-width":1347,"large-height":1778,"1536x1536":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","1536x1536-width":1164,"1536x1536-height":1536,"2048x2048":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","2048x2048-width":1347,"2048x2048-height":1778,"trp-custom-language-flag":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","trp-custom-language-flag-width":9,"trp-custom-language-flag-height":12,"wpvr_mobile":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567E2-R01-010.jpg","wpvr_mobile-width":1347,"wpvr_mobile-height":1778}}],"settings":{"fit_width":"6","caption":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

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Stoya: Yeah, you like, hang out with them and you come up with 50 amazing ideas that you never could have come up with yourself.<\/p>\n

Kembra: Exactly, that was Gordon and he died when he was 26. And I should get you the book that we made for him. I\u2019m trying to remember to get it, I don\u2019t have any books or anything here. I don\u2019t keep any books, any pictures up on the wall, even in my apartment. Not to switch subjects but I work really monastically here, I just have nothing on the walls. I\u2019ll strip the whole apartment and then start a new piece. And I\u2019ve done that my whole life here. I don\u2019t have any sentimental things on the wall. No pictures. Nothing. I\u2019m not a collector.<\/p>\n

I ask about a quote from her on the bifurcation of Marilyn Monroe\u2019s public and private personas, and how she manages to move between contexts so easily.<\/p>\n

Kembra: In art and films, to have a different name is pretty common, you know, to have a different persona just as far as like having a poetic identity. It\u2019s called a poetic identity. It\u2019s an intelligent way to handle all that stuff. Do you know, I think it makes it a little bit easier, actually, to have separate names for things. I don\u2019t think that I\u2019m being a character when I\u2019m in my Karen Black costume at all, I just think I\u2019m Kembra in costume.<\/p>\n

Stoya: What\u2019s a persona, and what\u2019s just an extension of who you are? And actually are those things the same at the end of the day?<\/p>\n

Kembra: I do feel like, you know, I mean, my physical transformation is really extreme. And a lot of times people can\u2019t really believe that it\u2019s me because I\u2019m such a … just a regular gal, regular person. When they see me in my Karen Black costume, they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, okay. That\u2019s something else.\u201d Because it creates such a larger persona, so much bigger.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"images","gallery":[{"ID":81987,"id":81987,"title":"49567D3-R01-006 (2)","filename":"49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","filesize":2805233,"url":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/49567d3-r01-006-2\/","alt":"","author":"1","description":"","caption":"","name":"49567d3-r01-006-2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":81983,"date":"2019-12-09 10:10:32","modified":"2019-12-09 10:10:32","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-includes\/images\/media\/default.png","width":1347,"height":1778,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","thumbnail-width":73,"thumbnail-height":96,"medium":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","medium-width":1347,"medium-height":1778,"medium_large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","medium_large-width":1347,"medium_large-height":1778,"large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","large-width":1347,"large-height":1778,"1536x1536":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","1536x1536-width":1164,"1536x1536-height":1536,"2048x2048":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","2048x2048-width":1347,"2048x2048-height":1778,"trp-custom-language-flag":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","trp-custom-language-flag-width":9,"trp-custom-language-flag-height":12,"wpvr_mobile":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567D3-R01-006-2.jpg","wpvr_mobile-width":1347,"wpvr_mobile-height":1778}},{"ID":81992,"id":81992,"title":"49567X1-R01-006 (2)","filename":"49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","filesize":3049705,"url":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/49567x1-r01-006-2\/","alt":"","author":"1","description":"","caption":"","name":"49567x1-r01-006-2","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":81983,"date":"2019-12-09 10:11:09","modified":"2019-12-09 10:11:09","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-includes\/images\/media\/default.png","width":1347,"height":1778,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","thumbnail-width":73,"thumbnail-height":96,"medium":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","medium-width":1347,"medium-height":1778,"medium_large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","medium_large-width":1347,"medium_large-height":1778,"large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","large-width":1347,"large-height":1778,"1536x1536":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","1536x1536-width":1164,"1536x1536-height":1536,"2048x2048":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","2048x2048-width":1347,"2048x2048-height":1778,"trp-custom-language-flag":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","trp-custom-language-flag-width":9,"trp-custom-language-flag-height":12,"wpvr_mobile":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567X1-R01-006-2.jpg","wpvr_mobile-width":1347,"wpvr_mobile-height":1778}}],"settings":{"fit_width":"6","caption":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

Stoya: The hair alone.<\/p>\n

Kembra: The hair alone. But I do feel that it is simply me and costume and it\u2019s coming from examining what my idea of beauty is to me. That is my idea of beauty\u2014the wig, the teeth, the eye makeup, the colour on my body. It really is what I find to be beautiful. So it\u2019s an expression of beauty to completely transform like that. And it also is part of a great way to deal with being very shy, having a different persona. And it helped me with that because I am very shy actually, I never really wanted to be in show business. But I did love the idea of sharing ideas and stories through art and costume.<\/p>\n

Stoya: How were the fashion interactions for you?<\/p>\n

Kembra: The fashion world interactions have been amazing because to go into the fashion world, to me, is like taking a glamorous vacation. And I don\u2019t really ever take vacations. When I go and visit other people\u2019s work, that\u2019s kind of my time off. It\u2019s a working time off. It\u2019s a working vacation. So I just love to see how other artists work. And the people that I\u2019ve worked with in fashion are artists working in fashion, they\u2019re artists working with materials and textiles and cloths, and they\u2019re really good artists. So I\u2019ve got to work with some really great fashion people like Rick Owens. I just did the Rick Owens show with him in the Pompidou Centre in Paris, and I\u2019ve known him for almost 25 years. Yeah, for my whole adult life. So it\u2019s just also another examination of what people are finding beautiful. And for me, art isn\u2019t that much about… I mean, it\u2019s political. And it has, of course, many different functions in our civilisation, in society. But I guess for me, it\u2019s about making life more beautiful. And creating an identity and a lifestyle around me that I find tolerable and beautiful. And a life that is rife with history and mythology and ritual. And that\u2019s what performance is about. For me, it\u2019s about bringing that into my life where there was none.<\/p>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"images","gallery":[{"ID":81984,"id":81984,"title":"49567A5-R01-006","filename":"49567A5-R01-006.jpg","filesize":1900475,"url":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","link":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/de\/article\/kembra-pfahler-in-converstation-stoya\/49567a5-r01-006\/","alt":"","author":"1","description":"","caption":"","name":"49567a5-r01-006","status":"inherit","uploaded_to":81983,"date":"2019-12-09 10:10:05","modified":"2019-12-09 10:10:05","menu_order":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","type":"image","subtype":"jpeg","icon":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-includes\/images\/media\/default.png","width":1347,"height":1778,"sizes":{"thumbnail":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","thumbnail-width":73,"thumbnail-height":96,"medium":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","medium-width":1347,"medium-height":1778,"medium_large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","medium_large-width":1347,"medium_large-height":1778,"large":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","large-width":1347,"large-height":1778,"1536x1536":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","1536x1536-width":1164,"1536x1536-height":1536,"2048x2048":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","2048x2048-width":1347,"2048x2048-height":1778,"trp-custom-language-flag":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","trp-custom-language-flag-width":9,"trp-custom-language-flag-height":12,"wpvr_mobile":"https:\/\/www.sleek-mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/12\/49567A5-R01-006.jpg","wpvr_mobile-width":1347,"wpvr_mobile-height":1778}}],"settings":{"fit_width":"6","caption":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

Stoya: So early on you worked with Penthouse and Calvin Klein. How was that, being so shy?<\/p>\n

Kembra: Well, that was me also making the best use of what was available because I thought to myself, \u201cWho gets invited to do a Penthouse<\/em> spread?\u201d And I was someone who made a decision very early on that it was alright for me to show my whole body. And that, to me … It gave me power. I didn\u2019t do it because it made me an object, or someone who was exploring adult sexuality. To be naked to me was a beautiful gesture. Because I felt there was so much beauty in the naked body and so much classic fine art. You know, look at the statue of [Michelangelo\u2019s] David<\/em>, everyone\u2019s naked in sculpture. So to me it, it was never intended … I was always surprised when people took it as a gesture from me that was wanting to be a \u2018nudie cutie\u2019 or something. To me, it was just about being a serious, more provocative artist. And that\u2019s why I sewed my vagina shut in Penthouse<\/em> which really turned a lot of heads [1998, photographed by Michael Halsband].<\/p>\n

Performance art wasn\u2019t as popular as it is now, in the Nineties. And I was coming from being sort of a famous rock person at the time. I wasn\u2019t as involved in the fine art world. When [Penthouse<\/em> founder] Bob Guccione asked me because my band was famous. And you know, magazines need fodder. They need content. So they needed to get around to me just because they needed to fill the pages too. No one else would do it. It was a great spread. at was a 20-page spread and I sewed my vagina shut and the fire department guys saw [it], and they said to me, \u201cIs that you in Penthouse<\/em>? What on earth were you doing?\u201d because it was such a mixed message. It wasn\u2019t exactly like beat-off material.<\/p>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"blockquote","text":"\"It\u2019s an expression of beauty to completely transform.\"","source":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

We talk for a considerable amount of time about what porn can do and how awesome not-exactly-beat-off material is. We head out to grab a cup of coffee, and Kembra has some parting words about the support she\u2019s received from galleries in recent years.<\/p>\n

Kembra: Emalin gallery I met just a few short years ago and did Capital Improvements<\/em> (2016) with them in London. After we did Future Feminism<\/em> in NYC [at The Hole in September 2014], I moved all of my business headquarters to Europe. I\u2019ve learned a lot from Leopold Thun and Angelina Volk [coordinators at Emalin]\u2014my two gallery owners that have essentially been the strongest advocates for what I do since I began. I never liked Europe because I always thought everywhere looked like World War Two. And I didn\u2019t like the idea that they would like me more in Europe. As a contrarian, I stayed in the USA where I was most unwanted. Record companies asked me to put on clothes and act more satanic\u2014it would sell more records.<\/p>\n

The art business devalued performance. There is now a tiny little window that opened for me where a crevice of light seeps through. Even an inch of light will propel me to finish more, do more and to stick around longer. I\u2019ve never had too much support, so when it does come, I appreciate it and don\u2019t take it for granted. I like the idea of proliferation, not just flipping the script. Now women\u2019s voices are being heard louder than a whisper. A proliferating voice can obfuscate all others.<\/p>\n

I am not an equality seeker. I like the idea of only women being heard for the next century. I can\u2019t imagine any real change could happen otherwise. Having compassion to men\u2019s crimes and misogynies will sink the ship, the world won\u2019t last as we know it. It\u2019s women who give birth to men. It\u2019s women who should create a new directive and a new understanding of how we\u2019ll survive as a species.<\/p>\n

As for a roadmap, the tenets of Future Feminism<\/em> seem like a great place to start.<\/p>\n"},{"acf_fc_layout":"text_area","text_area":"

\n

This article originally appeared in SLEEK 64, out now<\/a>.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

CREDITS<\/strong><\/p>\n

PHOTOGRAPHY: Fumi Nagasaka<\/a>
\nAll Looks: Rick Owens<\/a>\u00a0AW19
\nMAKE-UP: Ebele Anueyiagu
\nHAIR: Kembra Pfahler, with wigs by Marcowigs
\nPROPS: Kembra Pfahler
\nPRODUCTION: Gillian Doyle @ Home Agency PHOTO ASSISTANT: Matt Ba
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