Sleek: Your book, Glenn, focuses on the aesthetics of masculinity. Is masculinity expressed purely through the aesthetics, the idea of a costume?
GO’B: People always want to know what the rules are. I say that you should think of your appearance as an expression of your personality, and it’s like a little art form in itself. I got interested in the idea of dandyism because it was really a political thing. Beau Brummell was a fascinating character. In a period where men were wearing gold and ribbons and really outlandish things, he invented a very stark outfit like the modern suit. It was about expressing the body, think of those slender trousers, and you could see which ‘side’ he was dressed on. It made him famous, maybe he was the first celebrity. The Prince of Wales who became king was his biggest fan. He would come over and watch Brummel getting dressed in the morning. It was about the transition from royalty and the idea of nobility to the idea of personality as the leader of society. Dandyism was a revolutionary concept, Baudelaire wrote essays on it. I think if you really want to change our culture you have to think about how you look. I remember how exciting it was to be a hippie and you’d see other hippies and give them the peace sign and you’d be afraid to drive into Philadelphia because you knew the cops were going to come after you. It was a visual manifestation of what was inside of you – and I think that’s something we’re kind of out of touch with.
GP-O: If you had long hair in Britain, you knew you could arrive in any town and if there was somebody with long hair around then they’d probably let you sleep on the floor and give you some food. It only lasted a couple of years.
GO’B: Right. By 1974 the cops had long hair.
GP-O: We’ve become very fascinated again with the idea of how to recognise people who to some degree will think like you or disagree with the same things that you do. How is it going to work as the economies crumble and things become chaotic? That’s why we’ve been taking a few tips off the bikers and selling these patches through our website, because there’s nothing more intimidating to the reigning powers than when they think there’s a tribe and they don’t know what it’s about. It drives them crazy. It’s an important aspect of rebellion at any given time.
Sleek: Are you calling for a return to politicised dress?
GO’B: I think people need to realise that style is not fashion. When I look back at what people think of as Punk Rock and New Wave, everybody looked fantastic. The idea that anyone would buy anything from a designer – nobody got their look from somebody else, they created it and I think that’s what people need to get back to and that they should stop believing in fashion advertising.
Sleek: Where else can one turn to for interesting new definitions of what masculinity is now? By the way, it feels very strange talking about masculinity all the time when the interviewer is a woman.
GP-O: So am I sometimes.
Sleek: Two for the price of one!
GP-O: Wouldn’t it be better to have two of everything if you could?
GO’B: I was saying the other night, now that gay marriage is legal shouldn’t we be able to have two?!
GP-O: Yeah! You know the common question I get asked of course is, ‘Have you still got a penis?’ and I say, ‘Why, does it matter?’ But if we could we’d have one of each for sure.