Archbishop Georg Gänswein in the meeting room of the Papal Nunciature in Vilnius. Photography by Tadas Kazakevicius.
It is a sunny afternoon in Vilnius. At the Papal Nunciature, Georg Gänswein greets me with a firm handshake. His office is dominated by portraits of two popes: Benedict XVI, whom he served as a close confidant for nearly two decades, and John Paul II. Sunlight pours through the windows, illuminating a blossoming garden, as the archbishop reflects on spiritual immersion, the crisis facing the Catholic Church, and the power of the personal example.
CHRISTIAN BRACHT Your Excellency, what does immersion mean to you personally – in a spiritual sense, but also in a secular one?
GEORG GÄNSWEIN It’s always good to start with the word itself. Immersion comes from Latin and means “to dive in” – to engage with something, to wrestle with it. For me, immersion means giving myself over to a cause, a task, or a situation, and standing firm in it. Only then do I see what this encounter – which is meant to go deep – brings me. It can also be an encounter with a person. An encounter itself can be immersion. And when I think of myself: faith and the Church have much to do with this word. For me it is no foreign concept, but something that holds a firm place in my life – a lived reality.
CB You spoke of diving in. Wouldn’t “depth” – Tiefgang – be a better word in German?
GG Not quite. Both involve depth, but immersion is a process. Depth means you have already arrived and remain there, digging further. When I hear the word immersion, it resonates with me – like striking a bell. Does it sound clear? Does it have harmony? Is it symphonic or cacophonous? For me, immersion is an invitation to a symphony.
CB In an increasingly secular world, how does the Catholic Church still manage to draw people to immerse themselves “body and soul” in faith?
GG I am Catholic through and through, and I am convinced that what is first required is courage, openness, and a healthy dose of curiosity. Why? Because the Catholic Church is not confined to Germany, nor does it only exist here – it is worldwide. At present, Germany is hardly a model nation when it comes to faith. Many people’s attitudes toward the Church and faith are marked by bias and prejudice, which prevent them from truly engaging with the reality of Catholic belief.
CB What makes it so difficult?
GG It’s 2025. In Germany, when people hear the words “Catholic Church,” what comes to mind is abuse. The Church has lost its positive resonance. It wasn’t always this way. The abuse crisis has profoundly damaged its image. Winning people over to faith in spite of that is a challenge we have not yet mastered. In my view, there is only one way: the personal example. It may sound old-fashioned, but example draws.
CB So being a role model for others?
GG In football, everyone knows what a fan is. A fan looks up to his idols, his football gods. We need to rediscover that in faith. An idol is a role model to emulate. Applied to faith, it means people need role models. We don’t call them idols, but saints. Saints are there to help me live my life better. Faith is not meant to burden me; on the contrary, it gives me the springboard to bear life’s burdens more easily.
CB That’s quite a communication task.
GG Yes. Ultimately, the Gospel itself is communication. What is very important to me is testimony. When I am convinced of something, I am ready to bear witness to it – ready to roll up my sleeves and identify with it. And that has everything to do with immersion: allowing myself to be drawn into what we call the Gospel, or faith.
CB How important are rituals today, in a time when so much feels fleeting?
GG Catholic liturgy lives from ritual, especially the sacraments, because they recognize the human being as both body and spirit. They carry the answers to life’s
deepest questions. The flip side is this: the less faith is practiced, the less the ritual is experienced. A ritual is meant to signify a reality that cannot be grasped by the senses. What is a sacrament? An outward sign of an inner, hidden reality. Through baptism, by water and prayer, a human child becomes a child of God – a fundamental change for the believer.
CB You often speak Latin. Is this kind of immersion a refuge, or a statement against the spirit of the times?
GG Without roots, there is no lifeblood. But roots are unseen – only what grows from them is visible. Latin is the root language of the Catholic Church, not only as its official tongue but especially as its liturgical one. Latin binds our present to all the centuries before us; it is an immersion into the deep memory of the Church, and at the same time a kind of safeguard, marking the boundary between the secular and the sacred.
CB You come from the Black Forest. How did that immersion in nature shape your spirituality?
GG The early years are the most formative – though one only realizes how formative later on. I grew up in a Catholic village, in a Catholic family. Prayer, Mass, the sacraments, serving at the altar – it was all simply normal. The longer I was away from home, the more I became aware of those roots.
If faith is not accepted and lived from the heart, it becomes a burden. Then it is no longer what it should be: an opportunity to see the true goal of our life. Faith essentially involves a view of eschatology – the goal of life.
CB You were Pope Benedict’s closest confidant for nearly two decades. What experiences left the deepest mark on you?
GG There were both positive and painful ones. The positive was the papal election of April 2005: the moment I no longer stood before Cardinal Ratzinger, but before the newly elected Pope Benedict XVI in the Sistine Chapel – pledging him reverence and obedience. That experience was like a tsunami, tossing me back and forth inside.
CB And the painful one?
GG That was in February 2013, when Pope Benedict announced his resignation and left the Apostolic Palace. It marked the end of an era – very bitter and very painful. Ten years later, the sorrow repeated itself when Benedict died on 31 December 2022.
CB You had to mediate between the conservative Pope Benedict and the more liberal Pope Francis. What did you learn about spiritual depth from that?
GG Benedict was a man of thought – and a master of words. He would gladly have remained a professor. Becoming bishop, cardinal, and pope was something he accepted only reluctantly. Pope Francis, by contrast, has a very diff erent background. As a young Jesuit, he was provincial superior in Argentina, facing tough decisions in a difficult political climate. Benedict’s spiritual depth was tangible. With Francis, it is not as perceptible. If I had to associate the word immersion with one of them, it would be Benedict.
CB Your office in the Vatican was once right next to Benedict XVI’s. Today, your window looks out onto a fourlane road. How does spirituality shift when the external stage changes so radically?
GG In the Vatican I had a magnificent view of St. Peter’s dome, the Vatican gardens, and, on clear days, the Abruzzo mountains. It was an immersion in the beauty of art and nature. That nourished my spirituality. Here in Vilnius, it’s different – immersion comes harder. Let me put it this way: my first skin is my own, my second is clothing, my third is my surroundings. That too shapes spirituality. To be quite honest: here I have to work harder to immerse myself.
CB Can faith still be a place of radical devotion today, or has it become more of a cultural accessory in the wake of scandals?
GG If faith is not embraced and lived from the heart, it becomes a burden. Then it is no longer what it should be: a chance to see the goal of life. Faith’s essential task is to direct our gaze toward the goal and meaning of existence. If I no longer believe that resurrection and eternal life are the true core of our earthly journey, then – as Paul puts it starkly – it is better to eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. For Catholics, eternal life surpasses earthly life.
CB You have met many powerful people. Did any encounters feel like entering another dimension?
GG No, not in that sense. But there were personalities whose presence left a mark. Putin was one – though negatively. His presence gave me chills. In a positive sense, there was Queen Elizabeth. During Benedict’s visit to Great Britain, I was deeply impressed. Her presence radiated warmth and gentleness, received as a blessing.
CB If you could recommend a form of immersion to young people beyond dogma, what would it be?
GG To let oneself fall into the Catholic faith – but only if one musters the courage, curiosity, and patience to truly commit to something important. Then you can see and feel whether it is genuine gold or just cheap trinkets. For me, the adventure has been more than worthwhile.
GEORG GÄNSWEIN (67) has been Apostolic Nuncio to Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia since 2023. From 2003 to 2023 he was private secretary to Pope Benedict XVI – first to Cardinal Ratzinger, then to the Pope, and finally to the pope emeritus. Born in the Black Forest, he was consecrated titular archbishop in 2012. After Benedict’s death in 2022, he was transferred to Vilnius.